(Comments added for week ending Sun 15 Dec 2002) | View Other Weeks
| last updated:16 Dec 2002 12: 26 Webword time, or 16 Dec 2002 17:26 UK time |
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| Webword Statistics - Recent Comments (Comments added for week ending Sun 15 Dec 2002) | View Other Weeks |
| WebWord Comment | Sun 15 Dec |
| I just finished reading The Elements of User Experience by Jesse James Garrett. The bizarre thing is that I dont think I learned too much. However, I feel differently about user-centered design. How strange. |
| Sun 15 Dec 22:17 | John S. Rhodes | Quote from page 21: 'The user experience development process is all about ensuring that no aspect of the user's experience with your site happens without your conscious, explicit intent.' I do not agree with this. You simply can't ensure that the user experience follows some script. Indeed, many web sites are dedicated to helping people explore and create. Caring about the details is good, but if you get insane about controlling all of the details, you are asking for trouble. |
| Where B2B exchanges went wrong | Sat 14 Dec |
| As the dust settles in the Internet shakeout, business owners are realizing that its the market that mattersnot necessarily the technology. In a new study, Wharton marketing professor George Day, consultant Adam Fein and analyst Gregg Ruppersberger look at the winners and losers in one sector of the Internet marketplace and come up with key lessons for incumbents and entrepreneurs alike. (Comments: Humans interact with Humans. Thats the whole story, in my opinion. That is what we are trying to do over at Trodo. Give people some tools and get out of the way. Thanks Frank Lynch.) |
| Sun 15 Dec 21:11 | Frank Lynch | It will be a cold day when the Internet replaces human interaction, and all those who thought it would deserved to get soaked. I thought it was very intelligent when ads like those from Merrill Lynch and Discover started appearing which reassured customers that personal interaction from either the retail broker or the customer service rep wasn't going away. The Internet is not and was not a 'thing,' it's merely a way. The B2B Internet channel didn't deliver superior things, or with sufficiently greater convenience so as to make it eclipse the other channels. |
| Web bugs, and why I hate 'em | Sun 15 Dec |
| Theres no reason for me to use a web bug except to give away information about your reading habits. While Im not claiming that information is terribly valuable, when aggregated across a lot of sites, it becomes valuable. (Comments: I wonder why there isnt more discussion on this topic. It was only hot for a few months but now people dont seem to care. Very curious.) |
| Sun 15 Dec 17:26 | Matt Round | I've basically got a 'web bug' on one of my sites to get better activity stats (the log reports I get with my hosting aren't great), but it does slow the site very slightly, sets a cookie and gives data away so I'm considering ditching it. One of my employers' major clients seems to have been sold some kind of analysis service which uses JavaScript and an embedded Java applet from the provider's server, I spotted it as I wondered why the site set my PC's hard disk going. It causes an irritating pause on low spec PCs and seemingly crashes a few systems. Nice. |
| Sun 15 Dec 21:05 | Frank Lynch | I'm not sure exactly what is meant by using referrer logs to map traffic. If it's what I think, the method has a weakness, because users' hosts can sometimes use dynamic IP addresses within session, and the IP address changes. Here's what I do every day on my Samuel Johnson site: everyday, I save the server file as a text file using Netscape (oddly, the other browsers won't produce a text file I can parse in excel) and then sort by IP address and time. Frequently I see strings of similar-but-different IP addresses with nearby times which, when -resorted- by access time become a coherent session. So I'm not sure how this kind of traffic monitoring can be done -easily- without using something like cookies or web bugs. |
| WebWord Comment | Sun 15 Dec |
| For some reason that I cant easily explain, Froogle doesnt impress me. I tried several searches for different types of items, but I didnt find anything useful. Does Froogle work for you? (Comments: Several people submitted this to me. Thanks!) |
| Sun 15 Dec 17:13 | Anonymous | i was still unimpressed though, just not AS unimpressed |
| Sun 15 Dec 17:13 | Anonymous | i was also unimpressed, until i searched for a very spesific product name and not just a lamp or keyboard or other _type_ of thing |
| Sun 15 Dec 17:37 | Matt Round | I wasn't impressed by the results I got by browsing through categories, but I'm hoping both that and the searching will improve as more items are added and the structure's refined. And I found this by accident, so it can't be all bad. |
| Snark Hunting | Sun 15 Dec |
| This site is dedicated to tracking whats going on in the naming and branding world, digging deeper to figure out what names or naming trends mean for the culture as a whole, and starting a conversation about a subject and a process that many people still find mystifying. |
| Sun 15 Dec 16:54 | Barry Parr | Great site. Snark Hunting's piece on Landor inspired me to create a corporate identity quiz for MediaSavvy. |
| HOW TO BECOME A "PERFECT" JAPANESE WOMAN | Sat 14 Dec |
| The manuals written here is not a joke, but very serious behavior for women in Japan in order to find a proper man, to get married, and to have a happy life. (Comments: Thanks MadMan.) |
| Sat 14 Dec 22:46 | Adam Greenfield | This could have been written, to the blackest of secret laughter, by a hateful racist trying to convince the world that Japan was utterly backward. Very unfortunately, it is apparently genuine, sincere, and written by a Japanese woman herself in what seems like a heartfelt attempt to 'help' other Japanese women attain 'happiness.' That, after close to two years living in Tokyo, it strikes me as accurate (at least for women over the age of 25) terrifies and saddens me. I think most sectors of Western opinion are long overdue for a realignment in their perception of Japan - which, despite appearances, is a feudal place antipathetic to modernity - and material like this will accelerate the process. I suppose some will say that similarly bogus standards of femininity are promulgated in the West, but the difference is that there's not nearly the weight of social machinery devoted to enforcing them: there are a multiplicity of paths to success for women that do not involve obeisance to the desiccated norms. Not sure what this has to do with usability, but it's fascinating, thanks. |
| Sat 14 Dec 22:57 | Zelda | And what does this have to do with web design...? |
| Sat 14 Dec 23:04 | Anonymous | - what does this have to do with web design...? No duh...It clearly shows that Japanese women are easy to use. ;-) Better leave this one anonymous. |
| Sat 14 Dec 23:55 | MadMan | Adam, what percentage of Japanese people speak English well? I'm just curious, that's all. Can a visitor get by without knowing any Japanese? I sometimes come across things like 'rules for doing business with Japanese people' and they scare me. I've pretty much made up my mind that I wouldn't have anything to do with them even if I got a chance. The complex social heirarchy, the 'don't say no directly' rule, etc. is a bit much for me. I'm a direct 'say what you mean (and vice versa)' kind of guy. Zelda, once in a while, we post interesting stuff that may not be related to usability. We're not serious all the time, you know. :) |
| Sun 15 Dec 06:30 | Adam Greenfield | I've gotten by with a facility at Japanese that has actually decreased over the last two years. As I've lost respect for the culture, I've lost interest in ever speaking the language, frankly. But, yeah. I'm direct enough - some would, and do, say 'abrasive' - in Western terms that there was no chance that I'd ever be able to adapt to the Japanese way of doing things. |
| Scientists exposed as sloppy reporters | Sat 14 Dec |
| A cunning statistical study has exposed scientists as sloppy reporters. When they write up their work and cite other peoples papers, most do not bother to read the original. (Comments: How much dose this happen with usability?) |
| Sun 15 Dec 03:41 | JEH | How much dose[sic] this happen with usability? probably a lot more, since 'Most URL references [stand] more than a 50 percent chance of not existing after only six months.' (from a Cornell study at http://www.news.cornell.edu/chronicle/00/12.14.00/web_citations.html [cornell.edu]) I did not read the article I quoted. :-) |
| Bigger Web ads endorsed by industry | Thu 12 Dec |
| (News.com) Floating ads atop Web pages are the most popular format among online publishers, according to EyeBlaster, a company that deals in rich-media ad technology. (Comments: What about users? What kind of ads to they like?) |
| Thu 12 Dec 01:14 | Ron Zeno | Translation: Bigger web ads likely to attract more advertising dollars. My question: Do publishers sell advertising time for the Flash ads that completely take over the browser, preventing all user interaction until the ad has completely run? |
| Thu 12 Dec 11:20 | Mac | Standard sizes should mean that browsers and ad-blockers should be able to filter them out more easily. When I see these kind of ads in the middle of content, I take the content less seriously, as I view the content as being filler for the ads. I like infomercials much more than straight ads as long as they are appropriately sign-posted. I like TV ads that are funny and clever, but I don't like ads that insinuate themselves into the content. I like ads that I can filter out easily. Like 'Subscribe to Webword.com' at the bottom of this page. Or the text ads in google (the ones on the right, NOT the ones at the top). I like the ad for Dave Clarke on usabilitynews.com |
| Thu 12 Dec 20:47 | daniel szuc | Daniel writing from Daylesford, Victoria, Australia. *spa country* Like to keep webworders up with where I am writing from. Ads tend to de-value the content and start to block out advertising unless it is really synched in with my profile (which is rare). Although admittedly I clicked on an advertisement in the ad enabled Eurdora. |
| Fri 13 Dec 23:11 | Anonymous | I scrupulously avoid Web sites that utilize invasive ads. When I do get attacked by an ad - either a pop-up or pop-under or a blasting flashing belching e-mail - I add them to my list of DO NOT EVER BUY or RECOMMEND! The only good thing I can see about popping content is that at least some of the money is spent on the talents of the creative people who develop the content. |
| You're Welcome? | Tue 10 Dec |
| Ive been noticing an alarming trend lately among our customers, and perhaps other call center types are getting it as well. Help me confirm or deny that it is a global effect. In the last month or so, more and more of our frequent customers are hanging up immediately upon receiving the information they called for. They are skipping the customary polite thank you step of the transaction. |
| Wed 11 Dec 10:17 | jorge | It's not suprising that people are becoming less civil in their dealings with customer service reps. Companies have invested a lot of time and effort in customer relationship management projects that have minimizing the cost of dealing with customers as one of their main goals. This often results in customers having to go through phone hell before they can talk to a human. If you put your customers on hold for 20 minutes, or send them through voice response system circles, you're telling them to 'f*ck off'. Is it really a shock that customers don't say 'thanks' for that? |
| Wed 11 Dec 12:19 | sherlock_yoda | Perhaps the reason people aren't saying 'thank you' is that the whole call centre experience can be so appalling that you don't feel particularly grateful to the people who made you go through it. Also, people who have been put on hold for a long while may feel that every second has become precious and they are inclined to end the call as quickly as possible. Another possible explanation: perhaps we see call-centres as an inhuman or 'computer-like' medium (a bit like getting search results from a search engine). You put in a request, or information and expect to get results. When you get results you quickly move on. It may be easy to forget you are dealing with a real person as a lot of the conversation is scripted or mechanised. Sherlock_yoda |
| Wed 11 Dec 12:44 | JB | If you have to wait for 5 or 10 minutes to get a half-arsed answer are you going to be all warm inside. Also call centers today are trained to try and cross sell at every opportunity - why hang around for that? |
| Wed 11 Dec 12:44 | JB | If you have to wait for 5 or 10 minutes to get a half-arsed answer are you going to be all warm inside. Also call centers today are trained to try and cross sell at evry oppoortunity - why hang around for that? |
| Wed 11 Dec 16:40 | Virgil | Funny, I've noticed a similar trend lately with telemarketers. Several times over the past year, when I've said I'm not interested, THEY have simply hung up on ME! Maybe they've been influenced by George Bush's policy of pre-emptive strikes ; ) Still, it's a disturbing trend... Recently, though, I did hang up on a customer service rep in anger (I'm usually polite to them). It was with Ameritech, and the reps there are actually salespeople in disguise. I was requesting information but kept getting sales pitches. Finally I said (basically), stop the sales pitches and just send me the information I've requested. The guy literally proceeded with yet another sales pitch as if I hadn't said anything. I hung up in anger and have yet to receive the information in the mail. |
| Wed 11 Dec 18:50 | JGT | How about a system where the computer rings you up and puts you on hold? How do people feel about this? Last month I missed my credit card payment. A few days later, my phone at work rang and I picked it up only to hear a recorded message saying something like 'Please stay on the line for an important message'. Just as I was reaching to hang up on the telemarketers (so I thought) there was a human being there telling me I'd missed the payment. I remember once before getting a call like this and hanging up on the computerised message several times before a human being finally called me. Surely that defeats the purpose of the system. I suppose if you're missing your payments often enough you get used to the message and that time on hold gives you the chance to come up with an imaginative excuse... I dunno, seems inefficient to me. Also seems to increase the likelihood of the call centre person getting an earful of abuse. |
| Thu 12 Dec 02:08 | anthropocentric | In response to the last post by JGT, I think what is going on is that those companies have a [relatively] small pool of phone operators, and they have computers dial out customers' numbers like crazy. The second a customer actually PICKS up the phone (as apposed to NO PICKUP or ANSWERING MACHINE), the phone call is forwarded to either 1) a phone operator (that explains the short pause, in some cases) 2) a FIFO 'waiting list' or queue (that explains the 'please hold', in other cases). I would say that this is a very clever idea (from a get-a-hold-of-the-customer standpoint), BUT, on the other hand, I also think that it is INCREDIBLY RUDE to call someone and IMMEDIATELY put them on hold (or make them wait). So, in effect, I think whatever efficiency that this method yields is negated by producing an unhappy customer. |
| Fri 13 Dec 15:03 | Lydia | I am surprised that anyone would think it is okay to be rude simply because you are put on hold for an extended period of time. If a representative is polite, informative, and assists you with what you called to do, you absolutely owe them a 'thank you' irregardless of how long you had to wait or what hold music you had to listen to. Inconvenience is not an excuse for not having good manners. Even if they couldn't help you, but they were polite and concerned, good manners would be to reflect that civility. In the case Virgil pointed out above, the person he was talking to was not responding to good manners (i.e. his attempt to ask him to stop with the sales pitches and just send the info he wanted), and would not acknowledge what he said. In cases like that, hanging up is preferrable to calling someone else hurtful names. Also, Virgil, it might make you feel better to know that often these reps do not want to sell you anything, but the marketing department has decided they will 'cross-sell' other products in addition to their customer service duties. So, often these people are not salespeople, but if they don't cross sell, they don't get a raise, and could get fired. I've seen this happen too many times. These are the people who robotically read off sales pitches and push on even when people ask them to please shut up, please. From their POV, they don't care because they are being made to do something they hate and they know customers hate, so if there are enough complaints, maybe management will wise up. Wow, sorry for the book, but this one perked my ears up! |
| Fri 13 Dec 23:02 | Toni | Another Satisfied Customer? My early training (programming?) makes it nearly impossible for me to hang up on a customer service rep, especially one who has just finished helping me (hopefully) solve a problem with his or her company's product or service. However, my inability to be particularly courteous to a sales rep does tend to mount in direct proportion to the following: 1) Annoyance level of the problem 2) Number of times I've already called in to get the same problem resolved 3) Amount of time spent on phone tree menu, then on 'Please Wait' 4) Number of key presses on phone tree 5) Whether I've already spent time fruitlessly on the company's Web site looking for the answer to my problem 6) Banality or vileness of the music on hold 7) Points off for marketing messages while on hold 8) More points off for the SAME marketing messages while on LONG hold 9) Whether the rep asks me for my phone number, account number, SS number, or asks for my password, especially after I've just keyed it in. 10) The level of inexperience of the rep! (When I take the time to call in, I need to speak with an experienced rep who has the ability to handle my problem quickly.) I could go on and on and on...(And remember, we haven't even gotten to the help request yet...) Now...do you really wonder why people hang up after talking to you? My guess is, they're FREAKIN' FRIED! My advice is, try to find a job with a company that doesn't put their customers through an endurance test to get help or support for a product that should work right in the first place! Sincerely, one who patiently awaits the return of customer service... |
| Experts Study Reeve's Brain Functions | Wed 11 Dec |
| Seven years after he was paralyzed from a spinal cord injury, tests at the Washington University of School of Medicine in St. Louis show the 50-year-old actors brain maintains a near-normal ability to detect feeling and direct movement, a finding experts say is contrary to the use it or lose it rule about the brain. (Comments: Ive read a few articles about Reeve. I once thought he was a wimp, but I now I think he is tougher than nails.) |
| Wed 11 Dec 17:05 | Michael E. Rubin | 'I once thought he was a wimp, but I now I think he is tougher than nails.' How was Christopher Reeve ever remotely a wimp? Are you referring to before or after his accident? |
| Thu 12 Dec 00:39 | John S. Rhodes | ...definitely before the accident. Almost immediately after his accident, I started reading amazing stories about him. |
| Fri 13 Dec 15:05 | Lydia | He never struck me as a wimp. Typecast, perhaps, but never a wimp. I would be interested to hear what made you think that, John! |
| The Emperor Has No Clothes: Naked Objects Meet the Interface | Fri 13 Dec |
| (foruse.com) This simplistic approach to user interfaces could be dismissed as laughable were it not for the powerful appeal it has to a couple of constituencies with real clout - far more than either users or usability professionals. |
| Fri 13 Dec 09:58 | boysen | I can see developers advocating this line of reasoning. Of course, it will never be a reality. Human beings are too visually oriented. |
| Fri 13 Dec 14:53 | Lydia | I agree, Boysen. I just don't think a good user interface tailored for the audience is something that can be shortcut. |
| view from side | Tue 10 Dec |
| ) or you can use it the cool way (view from the top). In other words, you can look down into the measuring cup, you dont have to read it from the side. Awesome! |
| Wed 11 Dec 00:01 | Ron Zeno | I prefer the design of the adjustable measuring cups. Set the measurement first, then fill. You can also add multiple items in the cup and the plunger action makes it great for sticky liquids. |
| Wed 11 Dec 03:36 | MadMan | A skilled cook (like, say, me) doesn't measure stuff at all. He/she just knows... ;) Seriously, I haven't measured anything in years. :D |
| Wed 11 Dec 05:17 | Mac | Hmmmm, maybe I should buy one of these for Heather as a christmas present. Yeh, if I want it thrown at my head on boxing day! I agree with MadMan, this is a device designed by a non-cook for people who don't cook. It looks nice, and sounds useful, but if you watch anyone cook (rather than follow the instructions on the packet) they always seem to measure by eye, touch, smell etc. |
| Wed 11 Dec 10:43 | Matt | I think it depends on what it is you're cooking. For most savory dishes, I don't measure much of anything, as you say (I'm an experienced amateur cook). I do, however, measure just about everything when I'm baking, because many baked goods are sensitive enough to quantities of ingredients that slight variations can make a huge difference (the difference, for example, between 1 tsp and 1.5 tsp of baking soda, can be the difference between a wafer and a cookie). |
| Thu 12 Dec 02:12 | anthropocentric | I hear that! My girlfriend (knowing that I love great designs) mentioned this measuring cup to me. I also cook, and NEVER measure, BUT, my girlfriend loves baking and in the case of baking, measurements are MUCH more important! |
| Thu 12 Dec 15:36 | Lydia | Ron, those adjustable measuring cups look cool - I will have to check that out. I am cooking impaired, so I measure everything carefully. Anything that limits frustration is welcome in the kitchen. |
| Fri 13 Dec 11:22 | Frank Lynch | I've seen adjustable measuring cups for solids, but do they work on liquids, too? As for this cup, it looks great. I was similarly happy when I found a kitchen scale where the dial faced up. |
| iHotelier: Demonstrating the Potential of Flash for Web App Design | Thu 12 Dec |
| (UIE) HTML really was never designed to take on user experiences that require a back-and-forth exploration of a large information system. |
| Fri 13 Dec 03:41 | Timo | ba.com has a very well implementation html transaction, that gets past many of the problems listed in that article. On top of showing the availability of flights, the calendar is colour coded for price range. |
| You Are Here | Thu 12 Dec |
| The problem, of course, is that many search engines are ill-suited to discern what youre really looking for among the ever-expanding, Himalayan-sized mountains of data. (Comments: No one gives a crap about nifty technology. People want to enter keywords and get great results, end of story. By the way, the article mentions that the search arena is very competitive. I have a one word response: Google.) |
| Thu 12 Dec 13:39 | Kent Sievers | Google has me disillusioned. More and more it fails to find what I need, causing me to concoct complex queries to weed out the crap that floats to the top. Sometimes I end up turning to any other engine to get an alternate view of the world. |
| Thu 12 Dec 23:30 | Lyle Kantrovich | I'm a huge Google fan and have been recommending it to friends since it was 'beta', but Google isn't good for all kinds of searching. It's great for finding what I'd call 'definitive' sources of information. 'Definitive' in Google's case tends to be 'free, publicly available resources that have been around for a while that lots of people recognize as good and link to.' Google's not so good at very specific searches. Here's an example: what was your local daily rainfall this past summer and how does that compare to historical averages? The answer's out there, but Google isn't a lot of help finding it quickly. Google also obviously can't find secured information -- e.g. usability papers and research locked up in the ACM digital library. I just heard about a company creating a search tool for digital media. They convert text keywords to the sounds they make and then search audio, video or other similar media for matches. Search is not search, is not search. For based web keyword search for general resources, Google is 'da bomb.' Search IS very competitive, and I'd say Google is the leader in many types of search products, but that market has lots of opportunities left for new products and for improvement on existing ones... |
| Fri 13 Dec 03:28 | Timo | Is anybody else using alltheweb? |
| Google Webquotes | Wed 11 Dec |
| Google WebQuotes annotates the results of your Google search with comments from other websites. This offers a convenient way to get a third partys opinion about each of the returns for your search, providing you with more information about that sites credibility and reputation. |
| Wed 11 Dec 12:13 | sherlock_yoda | I disagree that the Google Viewer is just eye-candy. It seems to me to be a very handy pre-viewing mechanism. I did some searches with the preview rate set as fast (2 secs) and found the tool to be very useful. It gives you much more context to allow you to judge if a page will be useful (does the design seem professional, do the graphics hint at the content, does it seem to be academic or business, etc). I wonder how they get the previewing to work so fast. Does google hold a cache of all the sites they index? I'd like to see a similar tool on websites, so that you could get a 'flavour' of a whole site before you explored it further - perhaps as part of a 'site map' section. Very impressive IMHO Sherlock |
| Thu 12 Dec 21:22 | GilbertZ | Absolutely impressive. It is subtle why it is a better search, but the results are much quicker to go thru this way and it means you are more likely to get a relevant site. And yes they do have a cache, but I'm not too sure how they use it. The regular google cache points to images on the server and gives you a blank spot if it changed...but the coolest thing is that there are no popups. So I would bet they are using the cache and google doesn't cache javascript I don't think so that's how they can be confident of no popupsunders. |
| Trodo | Wed 11 Dec |
| . Not too shabby for only being live for two days. Im already amazed at the quality and diversity of the items. There is some good stuff available if you ask me: Black and White (game), Black Hawk Down (DVD), Mummy Returns (DVD), Star wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith (game), Web Design in a Nutshell (book), XML: a primer (book), and more. |
| Wed 11 Dec 00:25 | John S. Rhodes | Can anyone read Chinese? Any idea what they are saying on this site? I'm so very curious, especially since they are providing good traffic flow to Trodo. Thanks in advance! |
| Wed 11 Dec 06:51 | Matt Round | The vast majority of items seem to be only available for shipping to the US, making browsing a very frustrating experience for those living elsewhere. Perhaps shipping could be made more specific (tick boxes rather than free text?) so listings can be filtered geographically, or just keep the text short and display it in listings..? |
| Wed 11 Dec 07:44 | Richard | I think the site would me more useful if you could specify what you WANT as well as what you are offering. I might have something that I consider worthless but it's only if I see that someone happens to want that item, that it becomes worth selling/offering. |
| Wed 11 Dec 22:17 | jonathan | John, That site you referenced traffic coming from is Japanese...the blog entry on the 11th references Trodo and the author writes about how it's perhaps an idea whose time has come...something about how people have useless items around them all the time and this could potentially be a good way to get rid of stuff. jonathan |
| Thu 12 Dec 15:32 | Lydia | Personally, I'd be more interested in the Harry Potter DVD than 'Black and White' - that game is more useful as a doorstop! It's still frustrating to have to click into each individual category to see DVDs, and the descriptions aren't very good, but I suppose that is what contacting the poster is for. |
| Lord Palmerston on Programming | Thu 12 Dec |
| Becoming proficient, really proficient, in just one programming world takes years. Sure, lots of bright teenagers learn Delphi one week and Python the next week and Perl the next week and think they are proficient. Yet they dont have the foggiest clue how much theyre missing. (Comments: If you read the psychology literature, you will learn that it generaly takes about 10 years to become a true expert in something.) |
| Thu 12 Dec 01:10 | Ron Zeno | If you read the psychology literature, you will learn that it generaly takes about 10 years to become a true expert in something Ummm... Do you have any references? |
| Thu 12 Dec 04:35 | Matt Round | Joel seems a bit too immersed in his Windows app programming and 'leaky abstractions' to have a good overview of programming in general. Yes, it takes years to become a good programmer, and certainly takes years to learn all the horrendous workarounds and quirks involved in producing large mainstream desktop applications, but a talented person can switch between most server-side technologies used for Web development fairly quickly and painlessly. Things like planning, structure and logic are the important bits. But then I get the impression Joel wouldn't consider that to be proper programming... |
| Trodo.com | Mon 09 Dec |
| has launched! What is Trodo? Simply stated, Trodo is a place to trade stuff. It is a friendly barter system. It is a bazaar. It is place to swap stuff. It is a place to share. It is a place to meet people who have stuff you want. It is a place to find out-of-date and hard to find stuff. It is a place to give people stuff you dont want, and to get stuff they dont want. Trade It On Trodo! Note: Many thanks go out to all of the beta testers. Your feedback was invaluable; please notice that we took much of your advice! Expect more positive changes based on your comments. I extend very special thanks to Adrian Holovaty for his outstanding programming help and friendship. |
| Mon 09 Dec 01:17 | John S. Rhodes | We still have a long way to go, but the site it live. It is such a great thrill to have dreamed up Trodo and then to have it built and launched. I really couldn't have done it without the help of a great programmer. In this case, Adrian Holovaty was my hero. I asked about 20-25 people to beta test Trodo over the last couple of weeks. The feedback was awesome. On the one hand, there were many problems. Fortunately, we expected that. I'd say we made about 10 critical improvements based on that feedback. On the other hand, despite the issues list, there were almost no critical problems. We didn't quite launch on time but we were damn close to my schedule, despite crazy schedules and a couple of major life events. I'm sure that many people are looking forward to my full report on the development of Trodo. Don't worry, I'll get to it over the next few months. I already have 2-3 important articles planned. Speaking of feedback, several testers mentioned that Trodo needed a tagline. At first glance this doesn't seem like a big deal. But, if you think about it, the tagline is critical. And, it isn't just critical for marketing and branding, it is critical for navigation, orientation, and general context. There were many other 'small' issues like this that really caught me by surprise. I'll be sure to talk about them as I have time. I'll probably have more to say later today. It is 1:14 AM (EST) and I need some rest. That's all for now. Trade it on Trodo! p.s. One last thing. Right now there are 10 subscribers and 79 items are listed on Trodo. How many subscribers will sign up and how many items will be listed in 24 hours? Any guesses? |
| Mon 09 Dec 04:58 | Matt Round | Looks like it's got a chance of catching on, it's eBay without having to deal with cash. Just a couple of suggestions - put a 'More about how Trodo works' link in the Instructions box (many, if not most, users will want to read more before joining), and improve the graphic design (sorry, but that logo's dire!). Anyway, I'll certainly be letting people know about the site... |
| Mon 09 Dec 05:39 | Mac | Don't change the logo ! Matt, I really love the logo. It makes me think of playing pool and reminds me of Trondheim (I'ts the thingummies above the letters). |
| Mon 09 Dec 09:19 | Joshua Kaufman | Cool beans, John! It's a great idea and hopefully a successful one too. Yes, of course it needs a tagline! (Don't Make Me Think, page 103) I think 'Trade it on Trodo!' works well. I definitely agree with Matt's suggestion to put a 'More about how Trodo works' link in the Instructions box. The 'Learn More' - 'Join Now' group of links is common for service websites. I also think the logo has much to be desired. Sorry, but a primary color scheme and a seemingly random icon don't work. Does the icon mean anything? |
| Mon 09 Dec 10:12 | Rikard Linde | Wonderful. It will be most interesting to watch this service grow. One thought, the registration looks horribly long and exhausting. I decided to register at some other time. It even felt easier to write this comment than to register. I say you should start out by asking for the necessities and then give people incentives to fill out a more detailed description later. Cheers |
| Mon 09 Dec 11:16 | Ryan | Don't change the logo! I love the way the site looks, yummie blue links everywhere! Ill register as soon as i get home. Ill email my address book the link as well. Good luck! |
| Mon 09 Dec 11:19 | Ryan | Oh yeah, and just a quick issue: the logo links to the home page, even when your on the home page. A simple -- if page = index -- should fix that! Im sure you guys know how to do that but as long as trodo is free, ill help with any php/mysql. Know some perl too but i haven't needed it in a while, a bit out of practice. |
| Mon 09 Dec 12:02 | Anonymous | Graphic Designer Needed.... Congrats though looks like an interesting service. |
| Mon 09 Dec 12:21 | boysen | Why do you need a Search page since it looks like the Search function is present in the Masthead at top? On the Help screen, (which really is more of an F.A.Q.) it might be helpful to let people understand how Trodo makes money. Some folks will wonder why the creators made the site. |
| Mon 09 Dec 17:39 | Matt | Two comments: 1. If I understand the system correctly, one CD credit entitles you to someone's CD, one Book credit to someone's book, etc. This presupposes that all individual CDs and books (for example) are of equal worth; this is simply incorrect. Suppose I trade away a rare first edition harcover book worth $50. Now I have to wait until a book worth at least $50 appears on Trodo (and hope I get to it before someone else does), or take a loss. I can't see why someone would offer anything that has any real worth. On eBay, you get money for your items, and money's good no matter what. On Trodo, you have to have faith. 2. This seems to have the potential for the reverse of eBay's fraud problem. With Trodo, you don't get credit for something until the person you send it to gives you feedback. After they've gotten their merchandise, what's their incentive to give you feedback? At least on eBay, you can prosecute for fraud if you send someone money but they don't send you what they promised; what recourse do you have here? Fraud's hard to prove when no money was ever intended to change hands. Don't get me wrong; I think it's a cool idea. Right now, though, either I misunderstand it, or I can't see why I'd post anything there instead of eBay. |
| Mon 09 Dec 19:08 | Rikard Linde | Matt, you write: 'Suppose I trade away a rare first edition harcover book worth $50. Now I have to wait until a book worth at least $50 appears on Trodo (and hope I get to it before someone else does), or take a loss.' You are missing the point. The value being dealt here isn't money, it's other values. A CD that's worth fifty bucks to someone (a rare bootleg with say Backstreeet Boys) isn't worth a dime to someone else (a jazz aficionado). This is a chance to get a hold of stuff you want in exchange for stuff you've grown tired of without having to deal with money. I think it's brilliant. This also made me think of a thought experiment I do once in a while. What if albums were priced according to their quality? For me that means the vendor would have to pay me money for me to touch a Backstreet Boys album and New Order albums would be infinitely expensive hehe. |
| Tue 10 Dec 05:23 | Hanan Cohen | Markets are conversations I couldn't find the name of the person/people running trodo. The service is faceless, the site is faceless. The site needs a discussion forum or any other means where the owners and registered users and possible users can discuss the service. |
| Tue 10 Dec 08:37 | Joshua Kaufman | Excellent comment, Hanan. I can already see many users having the same questions that Matt had above. It would be a great for Trodo to have some sort of forum where the creators and the users could come together and have a constructive discussion. |
| Tue 10 Dec 08:46 | John S. Rhodes | Joshua, Hanan, and others... Your suggestions are excellent. We will probably have a forum set up in about 2 weeks. We already have the software running for the discussion board, but it needs a serious facelift, we need to do more configuration, and we need to seriously test it. Once the discussion board is available, people can go hog wild! By the way, folks will be interested to know that the very first Trodo item was requested yesterday: Rebecca Blood's -- The Weblog Handbook. I'm the owner and I'm shipping it today! Keep the suggestions coming. We're listening. |
| Tue 10 Dec 09:36 | Ed | Good luck, John! This is a good idea that stands a reasonable chance of success. Had you launched 3 years ago you'd probably have had a bunch of venture money thrown at you. I will definitely try it out. |
| Tue 10 Dec 15:23 | Thad | I don't like that you can't ask for something unless you've offered something in the same category. I'm sure there's a good reason for this, but I'm not seeing it. To me, an old game, cd, book, dvd, all carry the same weight, so why the restriction? |
| Tue 10 Dec 15:48 | alice | There's a site called Makeup Alley that does the same thing with cosmetics (not exactly sanitary, but I guess some people don't mind): http://makeupalley.com/swap/ One good feature of their 'swap' is that people can post wishlists for items they want. You can browse people's wishlists, so if you spot something you have and want to trade, it gives you incentive to sign up. Does Trodo have that? If so, I missed it, as might others. I also agree with Thad, above, who thinks you should be able to trade a CD for a book or a DVD for a CD, etc. |
| Tue 10 Dec 16:15 | Joshua Kaufman | Another suggestion: it would be great if the registration allowed new users to list items later, but still save their name, address, etc. Then, they could come back and list their first items whenever they were ready or when they were required to. I've recommended the site to several people, and at least two of them didn't complete the registration the first time just because they didn't have items ready to list. I think NetFlix does something like this. They save your registration information even if you don't ask them too. You might want to use this as an example to work from. See Design Not Found for 37signals' write-up on this. |
| Wed 11 Dec 14:39 | Ryan | You might want to ignore anything 37signals has to say. :) But i do agree with that, i diddn't register untill today because i could not remember what I had at home, while i was at work. |
| Thu 12 Dec 04:19 | anthropocentric | LOGO: Ketchup and Mustard. But seriously, I think it's fine. FAQ: My #1 question (and its not in the FAQ). Who says that the person you shipped your stuff to will give you the credit you deserve? FACELESS: I agree with above point! I *ALWAYS* at least SKIM the 'About Us' pages (Who are these guys? Where are they located? One dude in his dorm or a REAL company?) |
| AppleCrap Hardware Review: iPod: Don't copy that MP3! | Tue 10 Dec |
| Having access to countless hours of music in something so small is an absolute gem, and sales of it clearly reflect that others feel the same way. However, there is one thing that annoys me to no end, Apples decision to make it annoyingly difficult to copy MP3s from the iPod to your computer. |
| Wed 11 Dec 05:21 | Mac | Profit Centered Design vs User Centered Design |
| Wed 11 Dec 10:07 | Joshua Kaufman | I like Oyamasan's comment in the AppleCrap forum: 'The iPod's little 'feature' is clearly design to try and avoid the direct wrath of the RIAA. If you think this is crap, just wait until Palladium ships...' Every time I hear about Palladium, I feel better about owning a Mac, even with some of its design 'quirks'. |
| Wed 11 Dec 16:26 | Brad Lauster | Here here, Joshua! |
| Mapping the Userati | Mon 02 Dec |
| (by Mac) Userati - A group of people concerned with issues relating to software and users, who are known to their peers. |
| Wed 11 Dec 14:29 | Mac | For anyone who pops back to this thread, I have now added usenet connections to the total. |
| Joe Clark on Accessibility | Tue 10 Dec |
| (Slashdot) I emphasize coding to standards. Unless you have an airtight reason (like you’re stuck using an old content-management system you cannot afford to replace), I really don’t want to have anything to do with you unless you’reproducing valid HTML. (Comments: Great opinions, great advice, fun to read.) |
| Wed 11 Dec 06:20 | Matt Round | Rather amusing to see the interview on Slashdot, which has some of the worst HTML around. I reckon Joe Clark might've supplied his answers as an XHTML document partly to highlight this... |
| Wed 11 Dec 06:56 | MadMan | Real pity the Slashcrap editors/designers didn't get the message at all. On top of that, they take a dig at him for correcting their spelling. (Matt, did you notice that they embedded the XHTML document in its entirety into the page? Bwahahaha!) |
| WebWord Comment | Sat 07 Dec |
| The reviews on Amazon.com of Looking For-Best of David Hasselhoff are very funny. Definitely worth reading if you need a good laugh. |
| Mon 09 Dec 09:46 | Lyle Kantrovich | While maybe not as funny as the Has-to-turn-it-off CD reviews, the reviews of 'Teen Steam' starring Alyssa Milano are quite humorous as well: Teen Steam http://tinyurl.com/3d5p |
| Mon 09 Dec 13:55 | Lydia | The humor is somewhat muted (for me) by my amazement at how one person (or even a small group of persons) can maintain the focus to post so many reviews over so many days. I'd go insane. The sheer computer-hours alone are staggering. All I can hope is that this was done on the company dime, because thinking about spending free time on such a project makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Also, as a German, I am deeply offended at the insinuation that we have no taste in rock music. I disagree - did we not produce The Scorpions, a decidedly hard-rocking band? Their song 'Rock you like a Hurricane' was particularly good. |